A Baffling phenomenon.

Linus

Active member
"When dying children suddenly awaken: investigating cases of ‘terminal lucidity’ in kids




There are a number of well-known mysteries surrounding consciousness at the time of death, from near-death experiences (NDEs) to death-bed visions (see my book Stop Worrying! There Probably is an Afterlife for detailed discussion).

One of lesser discussed phenomena though is that of ‘terminal lucidity’: cases in which patients with severe cognitive and/or physical impairment suddenly and unexpectedly become aware of their environment and interact with family and carers. Also sometimes referred to as ‘lightening up before death’, or ‘premortem surge’, this phenomenon is difficult to explain in terms of mainstream brain science, as they occur in situations where the medical diagnosis makes the possibility of spontaneous remission unlikely.

Nevertheless, it seems to be a fairly common occurrence – in a British survey of caregivers, approximately 70% stated they had witnessed terminal lucidity in the preceding five years in dying patients, while an Irish study found that 57.5% of palliative carers reported ‘Patients in a deep coma becoming suddenly alert enough to say goodbye to relatives’.

The growing interest in this phenomenon is reflected in the recent publication of a paper on the topic in The Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease, which recounted a small number of accounts of terminal lucidity in children shortly before their death. The paper, “Terminal Lucidity in a Pediatric Oncology Clinic“, includes among its authors some of the most respected names in ‘survival of consciousness’ research, including Bruce Greyson, Peter Fenwick and Allan Kellehear.


For example, one patient – a 3-year-old girl with hemophagocytic lymphohistiocytosis (HLH) – was suffering ongoing organ failure, and after being transferred to the ICU, had become encephalopathic and was no longer speaking, eating, or responding to parents and care providers. Some weeks later, on the same day that the parents had changed her status to ‘Do not resuscitate’, she suddenly awoke…
…and asked for her usual comfort items (i.e. Lion King movie, parents, toys) and food. She showed no indication of mental impairment and regained the ability to sit up in bed and participate in coloring and other simple age-appropriate tasks.
She spoke using logical, organized full sentences, and had multiple conversations with her parents that evening, which they and the bedside nurse described as “like a miracle.”
…She indicated awareness of transitioning to death and reassured loved ones of the need not to be concerned about her.
Interestingly, the researchers report that beyond the people who were in the room with her, the girl also seemed to be communicating with people who were not visible (a common aspect of death-bed vision cases).

After several hours, she then asked to “go to bed” and returned to her comatose state – over the next two days, she never awoke again and died peacefully of cardiac arrest in her parents’ arms.

The paper’s authors note that it is vital to study cases such as this “through systematic investigation” as they have important implications “for patients, caregivers, medical professionals, and systems of care at the end of life”, allowing for more informed decisions by family, caregivers and medical staff about further treatment.
But to do so, they note, it might be necessary to overcome some taboos about reporting of anomalous experiences at the time of death, as medical professionals are sometimes reluctant to do so “due to concerns that a willingness to describe such experiences would be considered a sign of uncritical credulity or dismissed as lacking scientific validation”:
Limited understanding of a phenomenon should not equate to lack of engagement with that phenomenon, particularly because unusual episodes of lucidity close to dying have been discussed by physicians since at least the 19th century…
…Beyond their potential for enhancing understandings about previous prevalence, the immediate imperative for further research into terminal lucidity in children is to explore their potential for advancing pediatric palliative care and intellectual understandings of cognitive function in children at the end of life."
 

Squire

Active member
Interesting.

It is strange about all these stories about strange effects of various sorts I have never had any associate claim to have experienced such an event or who know of people who have experienced such event.

So, such events must be extremely rare and are probably not witnessed by independent observers.

Globally, 150,000 people die every day, >50 million a year. If this phenomenon was related to death there would be millions of occurrences every year.

Therefore, the phenomenon is not related to death, it is associated with the individual.
 

Miranda

Member
As the article points out Squire, the phenomenon is known about as reported by caregivers. My mother was a nurse and was quite familiar with 'end of life' stories and had quite a few stories of her own.
 

Squire

Active member
If there were millions of occurrences every year out of the > 50 million deaths a year, the phenomenon would be public knowledge and common knowledge.

It is not public knowledge. It is not common knowledge.

Most people who die in hospitals or hospices are either unconscious or asleep at the time of death.
 

Miranda

Member
What do you mean that it is not public knowledge? Does our cultural knowledge of such phenomenon, not count?
It is common knowledge within the health industry.
Given that modern common culture is to hide away the sick and dying, when would the public have the opportunity to witness that which health professionals take as a given?
 

HBS Guy

Head Honcho 💉💉
Staff member
Well, Dad died at home and we (me, my two sisters and a niece) were present at my mother’s death. That niece saw both of her grandparents die.

No weird phenomenon occurred.
 

Squire

Active member
It could be that persons with strong religious beliefs experience hallucinations.

It would be interesting if this study tried to find an atheist who experienced such phenomena if indeed such a person exists.

That would be a real test of the phenomena.
 
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Linus

Active member

There are countless Atheist testimonies bearing witness to these near-death phenomena. You could spend months trawling YouTube or Google for them.

They are not confined to the religious.
 
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Squire

Active member
The problem with this issue is to separate genuine people from grifters who are profiting from their stories.
 

Linus

Active member
Ok, so they're all liars. It's not a credible position to hold. You'll be forever claiming that whoever claims (s)he's an atheist and has had these experiences are not true atheists. No, you're test was passed.

It was just a bad test.

Atheists aren't any more trustworthy as anyone else reporting these experiences. You'd have been better off just saying that you believe, no matter who has these experiences, that they're hallucinations.

However, people who have had these experiences have reported things that they couldn't have known and have later been found to be true. For example, someone is dying they say, "Oh look,uncle Fred is here". The relatives around the deathbed can't see uncle Fred and also know that uncle Fred is still alive. They dismiss their dying relative's utterance as a hallucination of a dying brain. However, they then find out that uncle Fred passed only an hour before their dying relative gave up the ghost. That's a hell of a hallucination, huh?

Made-up story? If you look, there are many stories throughout time and in the present that give this kind of account. Are they all liars? Maybe it's just co-incidence. The hallucination just happened to correlate with some real world happening. Perhaps......
 

Squire

Active member
The only way to resolve the questions is to apply scientific rules of evidence.

Remove all subjective, emotional, and religious factors.

The "Oh look, Uncle Fred is here" incident might be a coincidence or merely a mistaken impression based on the misidentification of an attendee at the bedside.

People are making money from this phenomenon.
 

Linus

Active member
1.Absolutely, this has to be delved into with the best tool we have at our disposal, the scientific method.

2. Yes, misidentification of an attendee is possible but these dying people talk to uncle Fred, and they're not talking to an attendee. It's more involved than seeing Uncle Fred. As you would be aware, there are other aspects. Another type of experience includes seeing people who have had near-death experiences report seeing distant locations and then precisely describing what they were doing, wearing at saying and who they were with.

3. Sure, there are hucksters everywhere, but not all people reporting this phenomenon are.

The experiences around dying remain intriguing and baffling. There has been no adequate theory to date to explain all aspects. All I can say is the jury is still out and in the meantime you're left to draw your own conclusions after reviewing the literature.
 

Linus

Active member
Maybe...

As I said, the jury is out. For anecdotal hearsay, there has been a lot of research thrown its way by serious, academic researchers.
 
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